Originally posted by Maxy Walker
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Goal kickingthis season
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Originally posted by King Salvo View Post
Goolies had good and bad days but still was/is a NRL competent kicker with a 75% career average success rate- Tatts Reynolds is around 82% -Flanno was 80% - Fitzy's career average was 76.87 % / JT 75.24%/Darryl Halligan 79.31%
So whoever kicks would need to be around 75% or so success rate one would say as turning 4's into 6 is still important. JT and Fitzy need to work with the goal kickers or employ Halligan as a "consultant"
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Originally posted by Thirteen View Post
I can kick too but I’m shit.Last edited by King Salvo; 02-26-2021, 07:25 PM.
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Originally posted by Rooster1908 View Post
I have never missed a kick for goal .Back in my day forwards we're never let to kick and I suspect that was a good thing
He was a second rower though - good player and was asked by Parramatta and the Dogs to play in their junior sides but didn't as that was the days of the 13 import rule so only way to avoid that was to be a junior of a team as not many teams would be signing young players to take up an import spot.- Import being a player from outside the teams junior boundaries
I remember when the Chooks signed Gavin Miller from Wests for the 1978 season- he played a lot of under 23s with the * donates import or something like that- you wouldn't find many imports playing under 23's as he was.
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Originally posted by Maxy Walker View Post
Yeah but I wasn’t talking about why 2016 was a bad year. You’re missing the point.
He loved his kicking so much that he even (majorly) p!ssed off Joey (his then mentor) by regularly kicking to Tupou when a pass would suffice. I remember Joey blasting him from commentary box, saying something like 'it's just stupid... every day of the week I tell this kid to go for the pass in that kinda situation... every day... I don't get why he rolls the dice like when there's a certain try on offer and a simple pass will suffice!!!'
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Originally posted by ism22 View Post
We had an accurate kicker in 2016... Hastings. I'd say he was on par with Flanno for kicking ability. We actively chose not to use him.
He loved his kicking so much that he even (majorly) p!ssed off Joey (his then mentor) by regularly kicking to Tupou when a pass would suffice. I remember Joey blasting him from commentary box, saying something like 'it's just stupid... every day of the week I tell this kid to go for the pass in that kinda situation... every day... I don't get why he rolls the dice like when there's a certain try on offer and a simple pass will suffice!!!'
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Originally posted by Maxy Walker View Post
The point about 2016 is that we lost several close games due to missed goal kicks. Maybe 3 or 4 games from memory. In the end it didn’t matter because we were rubbish for a bunch of other reasons. But if we were to loss 3 or 4 close games due to missed goal kicks this year would we still make the top 4? Doubtful.
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Originally posted by Maxy Walker View Post
Yeah but I wasn’t talking about why 2016 was a bad year. You’re missing the point.
The argument is; what is the value proposition of a specialist goal kicker vs picking the best player in that position and going with an inferior goal kicker. Not whether sides lose games because goals are missed.
If we use 2016 as the example as you raised we had Jackson Hastings who kicked at 84%, one of the best percentages in the competition and in line with what James Maloney was kicking at during the previous 3 seasons. Now you can’t say we lost those games because we went into it without a recognised goal kicker, you could argue we lost those games because of goal kicking but not because we didn’t have a recognised goal kicker.
Look at 2018/19 - Trent Robinson had to make a really hard call. Does he stick with Michael Gordon who was a good solid performer for us in 2017 and a recognised goal kicker with a 81% career goal kicking record or does he go with Blake Ferguson who had struggled at centre but clearly had the higher ceiling in terms of talent. Then back himself to find someone like a Brett Morris in 2019. Hard decision because his two back up kickers were a prop who plays 50mins and a centre who is erratic by nature.
He chose the latter and in my opinion he 100% made the right call, we don’t win 2018 without the season Blake Ferguson had. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again the best season I’ve ever seen from a winger in RW&B. I also think a lesser winger in the 2019 grand final may have affected the outcome of that game, Brett Morris was my man of the match his defensive work on Jack Wighton’s kicking game was immense.
The argument this year is we could have kept Kyle Flanagan or promoted/bought a specialist goal kicker but at what cost, would it mean a downgrade on the player currently occupying that position. Again I think in this instance the ceiling of a Keary/Lam or Keary/Walker combination is far higher than another season of Keary/Flanagan. So then what’s the trade off?
Kyle Flanagan kicked at 80.5% last year, going off last year we scored 102 tries from 22 games. So of those 102 tries assuming he didn’t get injured he would’ve kicked 164points. Hypothetically if we downgraded to a 75% kicker which is what Latrell Mitchell was kicking at assuming again he missed no games he would’ve kicked 154 points. The difference over the course of a season is 10 points, so the Question has to be, is it worth having a specialist goal kicker in the squad if it is a downgrade on the player already occupying that position.
That is the point being made, not whether or not sides lose games because of a missed goal. Happens all the time, like in your 2016 example when we had one of the better goal kickers in the game.
Would you keep Michael Gordon and dump Blake Ferguson in 2018 to have a specialist goal kicker in your starting 17... I think that’s the easiest way to put it.
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Originally posted by Rooster_6 View Post
I think you’re missing the point being made. No one is saying sides don’t lose games because they miss goals, I think everyone on here would accept that as a reasonable statement. Happens all the time, even to the best goal kickers in the comp think Jarod Croker the poor bastard.
The argument is; what is the value proposition of a specialist goal kicker vs picking the best player in that position and going with an inferior goal kicker. Not whether sides lose games because goals are missed.
If we use 2016 as the example as you raised we had Jackson Hastings who kicked at 84%, one of the best percentages in the competition and in line with what James Maloney was kicking at during the previous 3 seasons. Now you can’t say we lost those games because we went into it without a recognised goal kicker, you could argue we lost those games because of goal kicking but not because we didn’t have a recognised goal kicker.
Look at 2018/19 - Trent Robinson had to make a really hard call. Does he stick with Michael Gordon who was a good solid performer for us in 2017 and a recognised goal kicker with a 81% career goal kicking record or does he go with Blake Ferguson who had struggled at centre but clearly had the higher ceiling in terms of talent. Then back himself to find someone like a Brett Morris in 2019. Hard decision because his two back up kickers were a prop who plays 50mins and a centre who is erratic by nature.
He chose the latter and in my opinion he 100% made the right call, we don’t win 2018 without the season Blake Ferguson had. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again the best season I’ve ever seen from a winger in RW&B. I also think a lesser winger in the 2019 grand final may have affected the outcome of that game, Brett Morris was my man of the match his defensive work on Jack Wighton’s kicking game was immense.
The argument this year is we could have kept Kyle Flanagan or promoted/bought a specialist goal kicker but at what cost, would it mean a downgrade on the player currently occupying that position. Again I think in this instance the ceiling of a Keary/Lam or Keary/Walker combination is far higher than another season of Keary/Flanagan. So then what’s the trade off?
Kyle Flanagan kicked at 80.5% last year, going off last year we scored 102 tries from 22 games. So of those 102 tries assuming he didn’t get injured he would’ve kicked 164points. Hypothetically if we downgraded to a 75% kicker which is what Latrell Mitchell was kicking at assuming again he missed no games he would’ve kicked 154 points. The difference over the course of a season is 10 points, so the Question has to be, is it worth having a specialist goal kicker in the squad if it is a downgrade on the player already occupying that position.
That is the point being made, not whether or not sides lose games because of a missed goal. Happens all the time, like in your 2016 example when we had one of the better goal kickers in the game.
Would you keep Michael Gordon and dump Blake Ferguson in 2018 to have a specialist goal kicker in your starting 17... I think that’s the easiest way to put it.
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