Martin Kennedy & Willis Meehan

[Guest]

Its along the lines of what the Cronulla players and staff have been going through. Certainly there is a process but it should not be an endless one dragged over a long and unnecessary period of time. I hear what you are saying NC about beaurocracy (trust me I live in Hong Kong which is notorious for it. I have to fill in a form in order to fill in another form lol) but who the hell is ASADA anyway. Fark them.

[ism22]

Its along the lines of what the Cronulla players and staff have been going through. Certainly there is a process but it should not be an endless one dragged over a long and unnecessary period of time. I hear what you are saying NC about beaurocracy (trust me I live in Hong Kong which is notorious for it. I have to fill in a form in order to fill in another form lol) but who the hell is ASADA anyway. Fark them.

I believe that Kennedy extended the process by arguing that the evidence against him wasn't admissible because his mate never should have been searched.

Fair enough... but I believe he was unsuccessful and has conceded that he has no further defences. From here I agree... why so slow if that's the case? If you caught him red handed then dish out the punishment, ban him and let us sign somebody else.

I believe all they have is a text where he's said something along the lines of 'oi hook us up with some peptides bro!!!' Not a good look, but probably a relatively minor offence IMO.

FWIW Kennedy had this investigation cloud over him before he joined us. He failed to reveal it (didn't have to... I guess?) and we lost out as a result.

I reckon we shoulda smelled the cheese. Call me skeptical, but every time somebody tries selling me a 'paleo' diet while claiming it made them massive I'm 99.99% sure they're on steroids and telling me BS.

Should we or shouldn't we have trusted Kennedy? He'd fallen out with the coach almost immediately and wasn't playing any footy (after already having Dank-related allegations while at the Roosters). I dunno... when a guy comes back twice the size after drug allegations, has sat out for months and claims it's all a 'paleo' diet then IMO you gotta wonder.

["gaz"]

Update on Martin Kennedy from,

"The Australian" by Brent Read (Senior Sports Writer Sydney)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spor...-1227402973337

Suspended Sydney Roosters forward Martin Kennedy told Australian Sports Anti-Doping Agency investigators he had wiped his phone and was at a loss to explain text messages that ultimately led to him being provisionally banned from the NRL. Kennedy, who remains on the Roosters payroll pending a hearing before the NRL anti-doping tribunal, was interviewed twice by ASADA investigators prior to receiving his provisional suspension earlier this year. On the first occasion, according to a transcript of his hearing before the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, Kennedy said he had no explanation for a series of text messages taken from a phone seized by Customs officials at Sydney Airport.
ASADA provided Kennedy with a list of 83 of those text messages during a series of interviews in October 2013.
“The applicant, accompanied by his solicitor, was interviewed by two ASADA officers,” AAT deputy president Stephen Frost said in his judgment.
“Also in attendance was the NRL’s anti-doping co-ordinator. The applicant was also interviewed by the same ASADA officers on October 23, 2013, again in the presence of his solicitor and NRL representative.
“During both interviews, the applicant was asked about the content of some of the text messages between him and Mr [redacted].
“He was invited to respond, and he said: ‘You’ve got to understand that I’m sitting here absolutely spinning trying to give you an explanation for it. I’ve got no explanation for it. I don’t know how — I can’t — I can’t explain it to you.’ ”
Kennedy told ASADA investigators he had changed phones since the text messages were sent. He initially declined to provide his new phone to ASADA, but allowed the investigative body to examine his bank accounts and provided a copy of his financial records at his second interview.
Kennedy was then issued with a disclosure notice requiring him to produce any mobile phone he had used since January 1, 2012. He produced his mobile phone on December 19, 2013, but told investigators it had been wiped when he installed new software.
“You won’t find anything on there. Not a text, not a photo, nothing. I installed completely new software. You won’t find a thing,” Kennedy told ASADA.
Asked if his lawyer had said he was OK to wipe his phone, Kennedy replied: “Yep. It’s my phone, I can do what I like with it.”
Like Sandor Earl, who is also awaiting a date to face the NRL anti-doping tribunal, Kennedy went to the AAT seeking to have damaging text messages ruled inadmissable. Kennedy argued the Anti-Doping Rule Violation Panel and the AAT should not have had regard to the information obtained by Customs officers, which was subsequently disseminated to the Australian Crime Commission, ASADA chief executive Ben McDevitt and the panel.
He also argued that even with the material in their possession, there was no evidence of a “possible non-presence anti-doping rule violations”.
Frost, however, dismissed his claims late last year — a redacted transcript of his hearing has only now been made public — and upheld the decision to have Kennedy placed on the register of findings over five separate allegations of the attempted use and possession of various banned substances in August and September 2012.
Earl has been provisionally suspended for 22 months over allegations he used and trafficked banned substances.





PS Admin please can you restore my original status and profile regards "gaz"

[John Corey]

If you have nothing to hide you have no reason to wipe everything from your phone.
We don't need this guy anyway. There is no one in the top 17 when we are at full strength that he would challenge for a position. Too big and too slow.

[Salvatori Grubber]

So there are transcripts of damning texts, but they no longer exist on his phone. Surely that fact is irrelevant and therefore it comes down to whether he can fight the (purported) unlawful Customs search and have those transcripts thrown out.

Don't like your chances Marty. What a tragedy for a young person with the world at his feet.

[ism22]

So there are transcripts of damning texts, but they no longer exist on his phone. Surely that fact is irrelevant and therefore it comes down to whether he can fight the (purported) unlawful Customs search and have those transcripts thrown out.

Don't like your chances Marty. What a tragedy for a young person with the world at his feet.

And he's angry because he supposedly wiped his phone so they shouldn't be there.

MARTY!!! Did you 'zero all data' when wiping your phone? Oh and... did they snatch phones from Mr Redacted (AKA Mr Dank and/or Mr Earl)?

I dunno... innocent until proven guilty. Also, he's not being paid by us anymore. IMO this is the problem with ASADA they run this dodgy inquisitorial process where the media hears everything and there's an assumption that you're guilty if you don't provide them with damning evidence.

Personally... yeah. Marty looks like a roid muncher and we don't need him. He appears to be arguing the admissibility of ASADA's evidence before anything which might sound 'guilty'... but it makes sense. IMO ASADA need more than a text message from Steven Dank (oh sorry... 'Redacted') to prove he's used drugs.

I studied law with a few cops (some REALLY oldschool style) and their perspective of evidence is really different from everybody else. Essentially they assume that as soon as they start investigating somebody they are guilty... any evidence you can't find must exist but be hidden and don't think about admissibility... just grab because the judge will see everything you take.

ASADA aren't cops but they appear to have that same kind of thought process. As a result, I wouldn't necessarily trust their evidence. Premature ejaculations come to mind... 'oh we found a text message from this guy to Steven Dank!!! He enquired about his services... this guy must be a drug cheat!!!'

Not that fast, it's a process. How did you get that evidence? Where? Why? Is it just hearsay? ASADA appears to be more an inquisitorial process that then gets played out in the media but IMO the same laws of evidence will apply. It looks to me like they've been investigating Marty for approximately 3 years and they're still yet to establish that they have any admissible evidence. Instead, they've just gone straight to their story. It's really lazy 'police' work IMO!

[Salvatori Grubber]

Interesting, and it sounds about right to me.

I wonder how damning (or otherwise) the transcripts are. I'm pretty sure the Gold Coast coke thing was based upon auspicious text messages as well.

[Salvatori Grubber]

I also wonder if Mr Redacted might be that other dude from Thailand - Earl's buddy.

[John Corey]

And he's angry because he supposedly wiped his phone so they shouldn't be there.

MARTY!!! Did you 'zero all data' when wiping your phone? Oh and... did they snatch phones from Mr Redacted (AKA Mr Dank and/or Mr Earl)?

I dunno... innocent until proven guilty. Also, he's not being paid by us anymore. IMO this is the problem with ASADA they run this dodgy inquisitorial process where the media hears everything and there's an assumption that you're guilty if you don't provide them with damning evidence.

Personally... yeah. Marty looks like a roid muncher and we don't need him. He appears to be arguing the admissibility of ASADA's evidence before anything which might sound 'guilty'... but it makes sense. IMO ASADA need more than a text message from Steven Dank (oh sorry... 'Redacted') to prove he's used drugs.

I studied law with a few cops (some REALLY oldschool style) and their perspective of evidence is really different from everybody else. Essentially they assume that as soon as they start investigating somebody they are guilty... any evidence you can't find must exist but be hidden and don't think about admissibility... just grab because the judge will see everything you take.

ASADA aren't cops but they appear to have that same kind of thought process. As a result, I wouldn't necessarily trust their evidence. Premature ejaculations come to mind... 'oh we found a text message from this guy to Steven Dank!!! He enquired about his services... this guy must be a drug cheat!!!'

Not that fast, it's a process. How did you get that evidence? Where? Why? Is it just hearsay? ASADA appears to be more an inquisitorial process that then gets played out in the media but IMO the same laws of evidence will apply. It looks to me like they've been investigating Marty for approximately 3 years and they're still yet to establish that they have any admissible evidence. Instead, they've just gone straight to their story. It's really lazy 'police' work IMO!

Cmon mate I thought you were smarter than that. Your statement about Cops having a different perspective of evidence is very broad. I will tell you something about old school cops,. They didn't have uni degrees, they were not social workers like today's breed. The law was not black and white to them/me, and society was a lot better for it.
Yep, if I was investigating Marty and wanted access to his text messages, only for him to say he had completely wiped everything well I'd have my suspicions. And if I didn't, then I don't think I'd be much of a Cop.

[roosterproud]

nothing wrong with wiping your phone. it frees up data space, reboots the phone and you get to start from scratch. clear out the lergies

[roostersrule2]

JC was a cop so I'd take his word on something like this. Even from my own point of view, wiping your phone is pretty suspicious. You can optimize it which won't delete anything but still delete all the junk.

[stsae]

JC, Say he did wipe his phone to hide the texts, does that mean they have the texts on someone elses phone???

And if so is that enough to find him guilty???

Just in general I mean, I know we have no exact knowledge in this case.

[Kingbilly]

One issue here is that ASADA has been a total basketcase for the last few years.
It has gone from an organisation run by people who knew what they were doing and investigations were kept quiet until proven.
Now its run by public servants that don't know how to wipe their backsides correctly and its more a media circus than anything.

Even thought that brings it in line with the NRL its still wrong.

[John Corey]

JC, Say he did wipe his phone to hide the texts, does that mean they have the texts on someone elses phone???

And if so is that enough to find him guilty???

Just in general I mean, I know we have no exact knowledge in this case.

Mate generally they get one persons phone, go through it and follow the trail from there. I don't know for sure but I am assuming this started with Sandor Earls phone. I assume they have texts between Earl and MK and that's how he became involved. Or MK and his old flat mate, that guy that used to play for the Chooks.

In regards to guilt it simply comes down to what is on there. A lot of it is simply circumstantial evidence which in no way makes a person guilty. But there may have been pretty damning evidence of purchasing etc. In saying that, there have been cases where the evidence is all circumstantial (no admissions, nothing physical) and the person has still been found guilty.
If the prosecution have phone records of countless text messages between 2 people and then tell someone they are taking possession of a phone (I assume they got a warrant) and that person hands them the phone and says, " By the way, I have deleted every bit of communication on my phone", then of course you are going to be suspicious. But of course that in itself does not make him guilty of anything. But it is another piece of circumstantial evidence the prosecution would use. Every bit of circumstantial evidence helps.

I have no idea whether the full conversation between the alleged offenders is on another phone, ie Earl. Maybe that's deleted too. If it was tho, then a person could say, "well my phone was stolen, I didn't send any of those texts to Earl". So if that's the case then they would be desperate to get hold of his phone to prove that wrong. But then they can also get The persons phone bill, use the location of the sent messages, ie, the texts were sent from the nearest Tower to where he lives. Some were sent from the nearest tower to Roosters training. You get my drift. All the texts are sent from locations where that person is expected to be in their normal daily routine. Once again that's not guilt tho, that's just another bit of circumstantial evidence.

If he is guilty and he has been active on his phone about it, then it's probably likely that they have a record of it on someone's mobile.

All allegedly of course.

[eddie]

Bugger Kennedy.
Is Meehan being tarred and feathered?????

He had potential.