Copenhagen Treaty

[Guest]

They all have a vested interest in this.

Well out of all the reasons I've heard so far, that one is up there with the stupidest. We all have a vested interest in the environment RC.

Can I assume you've done no research or read anything on the topic, you have simply declared it all bullshit because those charged with doing something about this have a vested interest in it?

Chook.

[Guest]

IPCC scientists working for the IPCC

LOL dig a hole dumbo.

It was the University of East Anglia in Britian, it had nothing to do with the IPCC.

http://www.examiner.com/x-25061-Clim...nts-and-emails

You keep telling lies and I'll keep exposing them.

Chook.

[Guest]

Well out of all the reasons I've heard so far, that one is up there with the stupidest. We all have a vested interest in the environment RC.

Can I assume you've done no research or read anything on the topic, you have simply declared it all bullshit because those charged with doing something about this have a vested interest in it?

Chook.

I'm talking about money.

[Guest]

LOL dig a hole dumbo.

It was the University of East Anglia in Britian, it had nothing to do with the IPCC.

http://www.examiner.com/x-25061-Clim...nts-and-emails

You keep telling lies and I'll keep exposing them.

Chook.

They are on the IPCC panel one of them is a lead author GOOSE

[Guest]

Professor Monckton PDF on ClimateGate

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/im...%20Scandal.pdf

[Guest]

Climate Gate Whos Who

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbc...-is-who_school

[Guest]

They are on the IPCC panel one of them is a lead author GOOSE

Who from the University's CRU is on the IPCC panel?

Never mind, I'm reading up on Briffa now.

Chook.

[Guest]

Rudd pushing his Asia Pacific Community crap again

Of course he wants to be the supreme leader so he doesn't have to spend as much time in Australia
http://australianetworknews.com/stor...61.htm?desktop
Australia hosting Asia-Pacific conference
PHOTO
Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is hosting a conference in Sydney about his proposal to establish an Asia-Pacific community. [AFP]
Last Updated: 3 hours 19 minutes ago

Australia's Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is hosting a regional conference on his proposal to establish an Asia-Pacific community.

The two-day gathering in Sydney has drawn political figures, academics and business leaders from around the wider Asia-Pacific region.

Mr Rudd says there's a need for an Asia-Pacific community that spans the entire region, including the United States, Japan and China, India, Indonesia and the other states.

"We don't not have a regional body that's capable of bringing together the political matters, security matters, the economic matters in a single entity - involving all the major powers of the Asia-Pacific region," he said.

Conference discussion will include the outlook to 2025, lessons of regionalism from around the world, and how well the current proliferation of Asia-Pacific institutions work.

[Guest]

Climate email mess hits Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/cl...1204-kb39.html

PAOLA TOTARO
December 5, 2009
LONDON: Australian weather records for an international database on climate change were a "bloody mess", riddled with entry errors, duplication and inaccuracies, leaked British computer files reveal.

The Herald found the criticism in a 247-page specialist programmer's log, unearthed among the thousands of files hacked from East Anglia University, which is at the centre of a climate change email scandal.

Labelled "HARRY-READ-ME", the log catalogues problems with the raw, historical climate data sent from hundreds of meteorological stations around the world.

The Australian data comes in for particular criticism as the programmer discovers World Meteorological Organisation codes are missing, station names overlap and many co-ordinates are incorrect.

At one point the programmer writes about his attempts to make sense of the data. "What a bloody mess," he concludes. In another case, 30 years of data is attributed to a site at Cobar Airport but the frustrated programmer writes: "Now looking at the dates. something bad has happened ... COBAR AIRPORT AWS [automatic weather station] cannot start in 1962, it didn't open until 1993!"

In another he says: "Getting seriously fed up with the state of the Australian data ... so many false references ... so many changes ... bewildering."

The log spans four years of work at the university's Climatic Research Unit, the British keeper of global temperature records. The programmer rails that the information has "no uniform integrity".

His criticisms relate solely to the construction of the database and do not question the validity of historical temperature records or analyses that suggest the impact of human activity on global warming trends.

"I am very sorry to report that the rest of the databases seem to be in nearly as poor a state as Australia was. There are hundreds if not thousands of pairs of dummy stations, one with no WMO and one with, usually overlapping and with the same

station name and very similar co-ordinates. I know it could be old and new stations, but why such large overlaps if that's the case? Aarrggghhh! There truly is no end in sight."

Michael Coughlan, the head of the National Climate Centre at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology, said it was difficult to comment without knowing the source of the raw data. It was unlikely to have come directly from the bureau's centre because unchecked, raw data was rarely requested for climate analysis. The bureau had a network of more than 100 specially selected weather stations to monitor climate change, and a century of records from them had been checked.

"We've put an enormous effort into developing a high-quality reliable climate record for Australia and all that data is freely available," Dr Coughlan said.

But he said that if the British programmer had been using raw weather data, which is sent around the world in real time for weather forecasting, it would not be surprising that it contained errors. This raw data could have come from countries other than Australia, and would have been difficult to correct without access to information in Australia, such as the original field books.

"A computer programmer sitting in England won't have the resources to make those corrections. I can understand their frustrations," Dr Coughlan said.

The programmer's log is one of the most read files worldwide since the email archives were leaked. The log has been treated particularly sympathetically as it reveals his blow-by-blow frustrations, which seemed to be unfolding as his scientist colleagues, including the head of the Climatic Research Unit, Phil Jones, appeared to discuss via email ways to avoid freedom-of-information requests for raw data and to denigrate their critics.

Professor Jones, who has denied a conspiracy to manipulate global warming statistics as "complete rubbish", has stood down from his post while the university investigates the leaks.

The Herald attempted to contact Professor Jones and spoke to the computer programmer we believe to be the author of the file. The programmer did not deny his name but referred queries to the university's media unit. Professor Jones has not responded.

RealClimate, a website run by climate scientists, confirms the log as the work of a specialist charged with upgrading data.

"Anyone who has ever worked on constructing a database from dozens of individual, sometimes contradictory and inconsistently formatted datasets, will share his evident frustration with how tedious that can be," it says.

with Deborah Smith

[melon....]

Its Over Chook..........



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225808471132

'Secret' deal leak exposes divisions at Copenhagen climate talks
Lenore Taylor, Copenhagen From: The Australian December 09, 2009 7:45AM

UNDERLYING tensions between rich and poor nations at the Copenhagen climate negotiations have boiled to the surface with the leaking of a "secret" draft agreement prepared by the Danish host government and a select "circle of commitment" including Kevin Rudd.

The leaked document rocked the United Nations conference as it settled down to its first full day of talks, with developing countries expressing outrage at its contents, and at the fact that it had been developed behind closed doors by the so-called “friends” of the Danish conference chair, Mr Rudd, UN secretary Ban Ki Moon and leaders from other countries including the UK, Sweden, Mexico.

The Danish Government protested that there was no “secret draft for a new Copenhagen Agreement” but rather “many working papers used for testing various positions”.

Privately negotiators were furious that developing nations had resorted to such a “hostile act” because they were nervous about possible outcomes in a final climate deal.

But despite the hosts' attempts to hose down the leak, it has ignited tensions that were not expected to spark until the top-level leaders segment of the talks next week.

Despite all the controversy, the draft “Copenhagen Agreement” contains many elements of a strong political deal, although it leaves blank critical emission reduction commitments and the amounts to be paid into new funding for developing countries for final determination.

It includes a commitment to limit warming to 2 degrees Celsius and - in brackets to acknowledge it is not yet fully agreed - the proposition that global emissions should peak in 2020.

But developing countries and conservationists were deeply concerned that it did not set a timetable for a final binding agreement, nor specify that such an agreement should be in the form of a legally binding treaty, nor propose a future role for the existing Kyoto Protocol.

Instead it says the deal should lead to a “comprehensive legal framework” by an unspecified date.

The draft, posted on the website of The Guardian newspaper yesterday afternoon Copenhagen time, is very similar to a document obtained by the Reuters news agency after the recent APEC meeting, which the Danish Government said had no status.

But now that the Danes have spent weeks using it to sound out views, the fact that it represents a possible deal has become impossible to deny.

“This was an informal paper ahead of the conference given to a number of people for the purposes of consultations,” said Yvo de Boer, executive secretary of the United Nations Climate Change Convention.

The document is framed as a new agreement under the UN convention rather than as a successor to the Kyoto Protocol and includes “schedules” to lock in developed and developing nation commitments, as advocated by Australia, among others..

An agreement outside the Kyoto Protocol has always been a key US demand, but developing countries, who were widely suspected of being behind the leak, want a continuation of the protocol for a second time period, because it is legally binding on developed nations but makes far looser requirements of them.

Environment groups joined in the condemnation, with the WWF fuming that the “behind the scenes negotiations.have been focussing on pleasing the rich and powerful countries rather than serving the majority of states who are demanding a fair and ambitious solution”.

Oxfam climate adviser Antonio Hill said “like ants in a room full of elephants poor countries are at risk of been squeezed out of the climate talks in Copenhagen. As the talks ramp up and the big players put forward their proposals for the deal it is vitally important that vulnerable countries are part of the debate.”

But Erwin Jackson, of the Australian think tank The Climate Institute, said it had some good elements.

“The principle concern is that the text does not provide a timeline to finalise a new treaty to avoid dangerous climate change and drive new investments and jobs in the clean energy economy. Australia needs to ensure we have a clear mandate for a new treaty by the middle of 2010,” Mr Jackson said.

[Guest]

Its Over Chook..........

Oh right now it's over, so climategate wasn't the nail in the coffin eh?? Geesus someone get rcptn a blanket, he'll be a basket case, he thought he was onto a winner on that one. LOL

Nothing is over Melon. Regardless of your narrow minded delusions, the world is going to act on this issue.

So, who are you going to be voting for now Tony Scabbott has indicated the Libs will put a tax on carbon eh? Can't wait for your answer.

Chook.

[melon....]

Oh right now it's over, so climategate wasn't the nail in the coffin eh?? Geesus someone get rcptn a blanket, he'll be a basket case, he thought he was onto a winner on that one. LOL

Nothing is over Melon. Regardless of your narrow minded delusions, the world is going to act on this issue.

So, who are you going to be voting for now Tony Scabbott has indicated the Libs will put a tax on carbon eh? Can't wait for your answer.

Chook.

ill be damned if I allow money and jobs to shifty from Australia to Big polluters like India so that Kev can get on the UN. Have yuo looked into teh Anglia Uni leaks? have you? What say you now Chook? Is the earth warming due to man? BULLSHIT!!! Lets clean water and air up I will agree with yo all the way. Lest reduce emissions absolutely. But to believe we can change weather? To believe a Tax can change weather?YOURE MAD!!

They are all arguing in Coppenhagen. They are all after their pound of flesh and nobody really gives a **** or believes teh bullshit theyve peddled to you.

Its finished Chook. Its been exposed as the biggest coverup since Watergate.

[Guest]

Its been exposed as the biggest coverup since Watergate.

The only thing that's bullshit is the direct quote above!

The Climategate crap happened a week BEFORE Copenhagen started, if that was the big uncovering of the scam as you claim, it would be all over the news and that's all they'd be talking about not Copenhagen.

Where is it Melon? Where's the BIG uncovering???? Apart from a few columns about it we've heard nothing. So I guess the world media are in the conspiracy are they??

And they are all arguing in Copenhagen are they? Gee whizz, there's a revelation...NOT!!! They were always going to argue in Copenhagen Melon, this leak just started it a week earlier. Which is a good thing imo, rather than spend a week blowing smoke up each others arse, get into the rumble and thrash out a good deal. Not waiting for the "world leaders" to arrive and waste more farking time with photo ops and shit, get a deal hammered out so all those toss pots have to do is sign the farking thing and shake hands!

Chook.

[Guest]

Is the earth warming due to man? BULLSHIT!!!

Don't let the facts sway you Melon, stick to your conspiracy theories!

http://www.theage.com.au/national/au...1209-kja0.html

Australia has recorded its hottest six months ever, and is well on track to have the second hottest year since records began, the Bureau of Meteorology says.

The World Meteorological Organisation's annual climate statement released today at Copenhagen found temperatures in 2009 reached 0.44C above the 1961-1990 annual average.

"The decade 2000-2009 is very likely to be the warmest on record," WMO secretary general Michel Jarraud told reporters at the Copenhagen climate summit late on Tuesday, Australian time.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Chook.

[Guest]

Don't let the facts sway you Melon, stick to your conspiracy theories!

http://www.theage.com.au/national/au...1209-kja0.html

Australia has recorded its hottest six months ever, and is well on track to have the second hottest year since records began, the Bureau of Meteorology says.

The World Meteorological Organisation's annual climate statement released today at Copenhagen found temperatures in 2009 reached 0.44C above the 1961-1990 annual average.

"The decade 2000-2009 is very likely to be the warmest on record," WMO secretary general Michel Jarraud told reporters at the Copenhagen climate summit late on Tuesday, Australian time.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Chook.

I wouldn't believe a word they say as they all speak BS