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How do refs decide how long a tackled player can be held down?

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  • How do refs decide how long a tackled player can be held down?

    Smith talked about this in the press conference.

    Was not at panfers game, watched on tv. The MOMENT a riff player was tackled by easts, there was an immediate screech by ref "MOOOOOVE!!!!!" And, knowing from experience that if they didn't it would be a certain penalty and a kick 50 metres downfield and a repeat set, that's just what they did. This happened last week against the vermin too, allowing them to make huge metres in every set as our guys could not set a defensive line, instead backpedalling trying to avoid the inevitable offside penalty.

    As Smith said, our opponents, just like last week, frequently held our guys down for up to 7 seconds, with no screech to "MOOOOOVE!!!" by refs. The consequences are obvious. Plenty of time to set defensive line, and we make 2 metres advancing the ball on next hit-up, before the next protracted tackle hold-down.

    It used to be the scrum penalty was the easiest area of a game to manipulate by referees, but this has been taken over by the refereeing of the rucks. Far and away the easiest area for refs to manipulate. Because there are no rules - it is purely up to the refs to use their "discretion".

    If I thought honestly that this was all due to poor tackling technique, or not "wrestling" properly, I would suggest Smith ask the referees directly for advice about how exactly we can effect the kind of tackles that will enable us to hold down players for up to 7 seconds without being penalized, as our opponents each week, whoever they are, seem capable of. It would be useful information don't you think?

    I know there are many on here who reflexly jump over posts questioning the impartiality of our beloved referees, and yes feel free (as you always do) to call me a cry baby, loony conspiracy theorist, whatever, but I know what I see. And although Smith has a job to protect, clearly he thinks he sees it too, as do the 4 senior players he says came up to him after the game to complain about it.

    Bottom line for me, there is a stench to this, and I will cop the criticism because this one area of the game needs to be highlighted as, unless a team is extremely strong (or something freakish happens, or both, as against the bunnies), a result can be engineered very, very easily by biased policing of the rucks by referees.

  • #2
    I think you are 100% on the money with those thoughts.

    It's subtle but really it is blatant. Against us.

    Comment


    • #3
      I feel as though we are hard done by in this area also, although I was at the game and wasn't keeping track.

      But according to the "official" stats, there's no difference:

      Sydney Roosters:
      Slow - 14
      Neutral - 102
      Fast - 22

      Penrith Panthers:
      Slow - 16
      Neutral - 110
      Fast - 21

      http://live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match14833.html

      Perhaps if our backs didn't jog up when returning the football, we could get more of a roll on. I was pleasantly surprised to see Justin Carney attack the line with pace beating the first man when he brought the ball back one time (the only time?).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jacro View Post
        I feel as though we are hard done by in this area also, although I was at the game and wasn't keeping track.

        But according to the "official" stats, there's no difference:

        Sydney Roosters:
        Slow - 14
        Neutral - 102
        Fast - 22

        Penrith Panthers:
        Slow - 16
        Neutral - 110
        Fast - 21

        http://live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match14833.html

        Perhaps if our backs didn't jog up when returning the football, we could get more of a roll on. I was pleasantly surprised to see Justin Carney attack the line with pace beating the first man when he brought the ball back one time (the only time?).
        This!
        One of the things that I noticed the other avo.
        C'mon guys, a bit of aggro & enthusiasm, please.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's simple really, the team not wearing red, white and blue can do what they like.

          Comment


          • #6
            Depends what team you play for.

            Comment


            • #7
              They use a count based on one of the team's prop's surname so if a rooster is tackled the ref counts "1 Jared Waerera-Hargraves, 2 Jared Waerera-Hargraves, 3 Jared Waerera-Hargraves mooooove!!"
              It's scientifically impossible for Easts to be in Souths' shadow when there's daylight between them and us.
              Easts to win

              Comment


              • #8
                I noticed this too. And I'm not using it as an excuse to explain our loss. We were crap. The halves were CRAP. But I did think Penriff were allowed to get away with this more than us. The refs were continually yelling out, Jared move away, Jake move, Mitchell Pearce move away etc. I hardly ever heard it for any of their players. I don't think we got our first penalty till about the 25 minute mark - I know they ended up even at the end. And the Michael Jennings timeout for an injury was a joke too. 15 seconds later he's scooting 50 metres for a try.

                Comment


                • #9
                  no1 your post made too much sense!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by player 1 View Post
                    Smith talked about this in the press conference.

                    Was not at panfers game, watched on tv. The MOMENT a riff player was tackled by easts, there was an immediate screech by ref "MOOOOOVE!!!!!" And, knowing from experience that if they didn't it would be a certain penalty and a kick 50 metres downfield and a repeat set, that's just what they did. This happened last week against the vermin too, allowing them to make huge metres in every set as our guys could not set a defensive line, instead backpedalling trying to avoid the inevitable offside penalty.

                    As Smith said, our opponents, just like last week, frequently held our guys down for up to 7 seconds, with no screech to "MOOOOOVE!!!" by refs. The consequences are obvious. Plenty of time to set defensive line, and we make 2 metres advancing the ball on next hit-up, before the next protracted tackle hold-down.

                    It used to be the scrum penalty was the easiest area of a game to manipulate by referees, but this has been taken over by the refereeing of the rucks. Far and away the easiest area for refs to manipulate. Because there are no rules - it is purely up to the refs to use their "discretion".

                    If I thought honestly that this was all due to poor tackling technique, or not "wrestling" properly, I would suggest Smith ask the referees directly for advice about how exactly we can effect the kind of tackles that will enable us to hold down players for up to 7 seconds without being penalized, as our opponents each week, whoever they are, seem capable of. It would be useful information don't you think?

                    I know there are many on here who reflexly jump over posts questioning the impartiality of our beloved referees, and yes feel free (as you always do) to call me a cry baby, loony conspiracy theorist, whatever, but I know what I see. And although Smith has a job to protect, clearly he thinks he sees it too, as do the 4 senior players he says came up to him after the game to complain about it.

                    Bottom line for me, there is a stench to this, and I will cop the criticism because this one area of the game needs to be highlighted as, unless a team is extremely strong (or something freakish happens, or both, as against the bunnies), a result can be engineered very, very easily by biased policing of the rucks by referees.
                    I think Gus Gould will be talking to the refs that for all fututre penriff games the refs dont shout out MOOOOVE but shout out OAK

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pelli69 View Post
                      I think Gus Gould will be talking to the refs that for all fututre penriff games the refs dont shout out MOOOOVE but shout out OAK
                      Too short.
                      "OOOOAAAAAAAK FREEEEEDGE"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pelli69 View Post
                        I think Gus Gould will be talking to the refs that for all fututre penriff games the refs dont shout out MOOOOVE but shout out OAK
                        Lol! I'll pay that!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jacro View Post
                          But according to the "official" stats, there's no difference:

                          Sydney Roosters:
                          Slow - 14
                          Neutral - 102
                          Fast - 22

                          Penrith Panthers:
                          Slow - 16
                          Neutral - 110
                          Fast - 21
                          Yes... the "official" stats. I just had a quick look and, if you compare the above stats with all other games, the Roosters' figure for "slow" ball plays is exactly the average for all teams. Well, fancy that. My poor old eyes saw something quite different. They saw what looked to be painfully slow plays of the ball in virtually every Rooster tackle. But my eyes have been fooled before - like in the 2010 GF when I could have sworn that Dragons player stepped over the sideline.

                          Of course, stats are stats and cannot be questioned. They are compiled by the NRL after all! Presumably, the NRL has a stopwatch on every tackle and has a scientifically accurate way of measuring slow, neutral and fast.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Spirit of 66 View Post
                            Yes... the "official" stats. I just had a quick look and, if you compare the above stats with all other games, the Roosters' figure for "slow" ball plays is exactly the average for all teams. Well, fancy that. My poor old eyes saw something quite different. They saw what looked to be painfully slow plays of the ball in virtually every Rooster tackle. But my eyes have been fooled before - like in the 2010 GF when I could have sworn that Dragons player stepped over the sideline.

                            Of course, stats are stats and cannot be questioned. They are compiled by the NRL after all! Presumably, the NRL has a stopwatch on every tackle and has a scientifically accurate way of measuring slow, neutral and fast.
                            A bit like creative accounting, if you like, eh?

                            Comment

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