Breakdown of Collins 'no try'

[ism22]

I'm no expert but thought I'd try to look at the rule book and check why I'd say yay/nay if I were the bunker.

Spoiler: I came in thinking it was a 'shyte call' and after going through the process outlined below, I've now decided it was no try (and the ref had no discretionary power to forgive Butcher for stopping in the middle of the defensive line based on severity...etc).

---

We need 2 tools to do this...
1. The obstruction rules - see page 17 at https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/opera...2019-final.pdf
2. Next, a picture of the play at https://i.imgur.com/iPsnklFl.png

My observation is that:
- Butcher has stopped in the middle of the defensive line.
- He hasn't initiated contact with a defender, but he's standing behind them.
- The ref has the power to determine the significance of any contact you've initiated, but the wording is that you MUST NOT stop in the middle of the defensive line. The ref has no discretion but to penalise somebody who does this (it's not about whether you have disadvantaged the defensive line or how severely your actions impacted the defence... that only matters if you hit them).

I'm not comfortable with the decision because it was poor defence rather than Butcher who stopped the try. If anything, he 'stopped' so that he didn't get in anybody's way or make contact. BUT... he stopped in the middle of the defensive line, which gets harsher treatment than if you run an odd line or hit somebody in outer play.

Possibly controversially... I'm gonna say it was the right call (in hindsight). Butcher was not allowed to stop in the middle of the defensive line.

I suspect the bunker read the rules over and over rather than looking at the angle when we see lotsa replays. Rather than 'checking angles', I reckon the ref's been like 'aaaaaw y'know I think if you apply the rules strictly, that's no try! I'm gonna get the bunker to double check the rule book for me though'. Arguably the ref did us a favour by saying 'I'll ask the bunker to look for a loophole for us to use our discretion in the interpretation... coz I can't remember if there is one off the top of my head'.

[The Skeez]

Fkn lawyers. Ruin it for everyone

[Mad_Rabid_Rooster]

Thanks for the analysis ism, but it is getting too late in the evening to digest it properly. I'll have to try again tomorrow!

In the meantime, at least Thirteen should be happy to see the separate paragraphs!

[Andrew Walker]

Ism I hope this is you just testing your brain In that you did a pretty good job defending a howler of a call

[Jarlicho]

He didn’t “stop” in the line. He played the ball in that position & didn’t move. He can’t disappear & if he shifts sideways he risks interfering with the defence if the ball goes the same way he does. If he goes forward he takes himself right out of play & again risks moving into the defensive line. It’s one they need some solid guidelines on as to what they expect the guy playing the ball to do when it’s that close to the line.

[Team Evil]

NRL has just made the unprecedented call of restructuring the bunker. sacking 3 former players from making decisions and having a season end review from that one penalty.
Nice work Ism but at the end of the day common sense must prevail. That’s what the player’s were brought in for.
I just don’t trust X player’s, they all hate our club!

[zac]

maybe the ball player is in a unique situation. if he plays the ball on the try line he's always going to be in the defensive line. if he doesn't move, he's stopped in the defensive line. he can't disappear. so long as the defence doesn't use him as a shepherd it won't be a penalty.

that said, what happened in the collins try is that jake ran a bit and then passed it, so i think that means butch being the ball player is less of an excuse. but because he's the ball player i think it does matter whether or not he interfered with the defence. did he? not really - the guy should have made the tackle (although that's a q of opinion).

[Mickie Lane]

Time to move on.

[Spirit of 66]

He didn’t “stop” in the line. He played the ball in that position & didn’t move. He can’t disappear & if he shifts sideways he risks interfering with the defence if the ball goes the same way he does. If he goes forward he takes himself right out of play & again risks moving into the defensive line. It’s one they need some solid guidelines on as to what they expect the guy playing the ball to do when it’s that close to the line.

Correct. If you deem the ball player to have “stopped” in the defensive line in this way, you could never score a try by diving over from dummy half.

[FREEMAN89]

The worst part of this whole debacle is when the NRL comes out and admits they got it wrong, yet it changes nothing.

Luckily for us it had no impact on the outcome besides our for and against (which at this stage has no impact on our season).

But let's say this was in a qualifying final or even the Grand Final..

Then what.. do we just take comfort in the fact they got it wrong if it affects the outcome of a match.

Imagine the balls it would take for the NRL to admit a wrong decision PLUS call to a rematch of a game at a later date to determine a new outcome.

[Mickie Lane]

The worst part of this whole debacle is when the NRL comes out and admits they got it wrong, yet it changes nothing.

Luckily for us it had no impact on the outcome besides our for and against (which at this stage has no impact on our season).

But let's say this was in a qualifying final or even the Grand Final..

Then what.. do we just take comfort in the fact they got it wrong if it affects the outcome of a match.

Imagine the balls it would take for the NRL to admit a wrong decision PLUS call to a rematch of a game at a later date to determine a new outcome.

Maybe they need some Larry Long Balls at the NRL.

[BUDDY]

NRL has just made the unprecedented call of restructuring the bunker. sacking 3 former players from making decisions and having a season end review from that one penalty.
Nice work Ism but at the end of the day common sense must prevail. That’s what the player’s were brought in for.
I just don’t trust X player’s, they all hate our club!

Has anybody said whether Maxwell or Scott made the NO TRY call? Maxwell pulled the trigger.
If it was Maxwell then he is the one who should be sacked otherwise the same call would be made even without the players in the box.

[Headless Chook]

I'm no expert but thought I'd try to look at the rule book and check why I'd say yay/nay if I were the bunker.

Spoiler: I came in thinking it was a 'shyte call' and after going through the process outlined below, I've now decided it was no try (and the ref had no discretionary power to forgive Butcher for stopping in the middle of the defensive line based on severity...etc).

---

We need 2 tools to do this...
1. The obstruction rules - see page 17 at https://www.nrl.com/siteassets/opera...2019-final.pdf
2. Next, a picture of the play at https://i.imgur.com/iPsnklFl.png

My observation is that:
- Butcher has stopped in the middle of the defensive line.
- He hasn't initiated contact with a defender, but he's standing behind them.
- The ref has the power to determine the significance of any contact you've initiated, but the wording is that you MUST NOT stop in the middle of the defensive line. The ref has no discretion but to penalise somebody who does this (it's not about whether you have disadvantaged the defensive line or how severely your actions impacted the defence... that only matters if you hit them).

I'm not comfortable with the decision because it was poor defence rather than Butcher who stopped the try. If anything, he 'stopped' so that he didn't get in anybody's way or make contact. BUT... he stopped in the middle of the defensive line, which gets harsher treatment than if you run an odd line or hit somebody in outer play.

Possibly controversially... I'm gonna say it was the right call (in hindsight). Butcher was not allowed to stop in the middle of the defensive line.

I suspect the bunker read the rules over and over rather than looking at the angle when we see lotsa replays. Rather than 'checking angles', I reckon the ref's been like 'aaaaaw y'know I think if you apply the rules strictly, that's no try! I'm gonna get the bunker to double check the rule book for me though'. Arguably the ref did us a favour by saying 'I'll ask the bunker to look for a loophole for us to use our discretion in the interpretation... coz I can't remember if there is one off the top of my head'.

You missed the whole point mate. All those descriptions refer to a block or flat runner and Butcher was neither.

[FREEMAN89]

Maybe they need some Larry Long Balls at the NRL.

yes @Larry!!

Time to put those long ones to good use son.

You have a gift, and this is your moment.

[dice]

Has anybody said whether Maxwell or Scott made the NO TRY call? Maxwell pulled the trigger.
If it was Maxwell then he is the one who should be sacked otherwise the same call would be made even without the players in the box.

It was Maxwell. This is where it gets stupid. The fix is to only have one video ref meaning the guy who warned Maxwell he was making a mistake won't be there next time.