Immortal Discussion - The Big 5

[stsae]

Has Smith, Slater and Thurston ever won an Origin series without Cronk?

has Slater and Smith ever won a Premiership or minor Premiership without Cronk ?

i May be wrong but wasn’t Thurston moved to 5/8 for QLD because Cronk had to be in the team ?

Out of those 5 players, Thurston, Cronk then Daylight.

To be fair to those Mexicanswholikestorms the 3 GFs they lost in 08, 16 and 18 they each year missed one of those players.

What I love is how Cronkite proved to himself and everyone he can win a comp outside that trio and Bellyaches structures.

IMO Smiff is the most complete footy player I have ever seen. He would also be the only Immoral among that trio if I was a judge.

Thursthead maybe. Has there ever been a more wholehearted goer in our time??? That bloke HATES losing more than anyone ive seen. Great quality to watch IMO.

Smiffs a freak though. The accountant who never gets injured or flustered just gets it done every single time.

Well except once. Yeah boy.

[007]

All the candidates you named are in that position so I put two and two together, mofo.

Was Thurston at the Cowboys at the time? As for calling me a mofo - was that necessary? Well I guess there's a keyboard warrior born every minute!

[ism22]

Minichiello. Why?
- Two premierships at either side of his career
- 3 Minor premierships
- 2 World club challenges
- Golden Boot and Dally M
- Sexiest man in league (2006)
- Battled through a crippling injury
- Spotless record (rarely if ever suspended)
- Legend off the field
- One club player with massive club and community commitments (which only ramped up when he was off injured and continue into his retirement)
- Legend for NSW, Australia and Italy

JT I'd blacklist...
- Got done with cocaine at the Doggies and was forced out for that + other behavioural issues (NRL would know)
- Was a complete arsehole until the later years of his career (mostly shielded by the fact NQ isn't high-tech enough to have the internet or TV)
- Even towards the end of his career, he was a d!ckhead and had a rant where he accused the NRL of having a conspiracy to make sure 2 NSW teams make the GF every year... immortal only describes his lack of punishment for that one!
- Happened to be part of a QLD and Australian dynasty where those playing for both lost very few games. Big deal? You can't just make the whole generation immortal on that basis. He showed his true character when he was behind or losing... half-time and/or on-field rants/sprays from him were not uncommon. Not immortal character IMO.

Was Thurston at the Cowboys at the time? As for calling me a mofo - was that necessary? Well I guess there's a keyboard warrior born every minute!

1. Yep, 2002-2004 and juniors before that. Dogiiiiiiiz!!!! [thrust thrust thrust]
2. Nope it wasn't necessary but I thought it added some comedic effect to my post. Apologies if it did not in your opinion.

[Flipper Hands]

The Immortals tag has been cheapened by the NRL this year. Beetson, Raper, Churchill, Gasnier, Fulton, Langlands, Lewis......these guys are a once in a lifetime players. Andrew Johns was no better halfback than Peter Sterling, Steve Mortimer, Allan Langer, Ricky Stuart, Greg Alexander or Cooper Cronk. As for Meninga I always thought his Qld centre partner Gene Miles was as good if not better. For those who remember Meninga as a player they would recalll he was a bludger out in the centres but a media pet. He certainly wasn’t any better centre than Laurie Daley.

Gunna' call bollocks on a few things here.

Johns at his best had the ball on a string in a way no other half had had up to then. He changed the way halves kicked, could make any team better by his presence, hit like a freight traiin in defence, and won everything he played in at every level of the game. Only Langer from your list deserves to be mentioned in the same breath, Cronk to be determined in 10+ years.

As for Meninga, he was monumental in showcase moments of the game, the things he did for Canberra in GF's, QLD in Origin, and for Australia were terrifying. Just destroying other players in attack and defense. And over a long period. Meninga was a bludger in the same way Freddie was. A lazy bugger at times, who could turn any game in a heartbeat if in the mood. At club level both of them played within themselves. Gene Miles was a great club player, and a very good rep player, but ridiculously far from immortal status. I agree with your rating of Daley, he may be almost as good as Meninga, more consistent, but never peaked as high IMO.

And yes I've seen them all play, at their peaks, and their lowest.

[Tommy Smith]

It's interesting that there are so many Immortals from the 50s and 60s - Gasnier, Raper, Langlands, Provan - from an era where Great Britain would regularly beat Australia.

But those truly great Roos sides from the 80s only have 2 inductees - Lewis and recently Meninga. And the great sides from the 90s have only one. A late 90s inductee at that.

My point is how the long passage of time lends itself to players being elevated as greater than what they really were. They become mythologised.

Johnny Raper's greatest highlights seem to consist of cover tackles. He sounds like a better version of Dallas Johnson to me. If he could do half of what Freddy could I'd be surprised. Of course I'm exaggerating with the Dallas Johnson reference but if they were all truly Immortal I'm surprised they got their arses handed to them by GB so often.

[Flipper Hands]

My point is how the long passage of time lends itself to players being elevated as greater than what they really were. They become mythologised.

Don't entirely disagree. I'm a fan of recognising players who have delivered at a high level over a long period of time.

That said, I'm also a fan of only admitting players after there is agreement that their star hasn't faded over time. So I actually like the fact we only have a couple from the 80's and 90's. I'd expect there are a couple more to come from those era's.

[SupermanSupportsEasts4Eva]

I always suggest that Freddie should be an immortal. Yet most of my mates say that I'm being bias. But Freddie IMHO was the best 5/8 I've seen over my 30+ years of watching league. Better than Wally Lewis (yes i said it and I stand by it). Better than Lockyer. I ask my mates to name me a better 5/8 and they struggle.

Other than Freddie the only others I would add to the list would be Thurston (even though Joey was a better 7) and Cam Smith

[SupermanSupportsEasts4Eva]

It's interesting that there are so many Immortals from the 50s and 60s - Gasnier, Raper, Langlands, Provan - from an era where Great Britain would regularly beat Australia.

But those truly great Roos sides from the 80s only have 2 inductees - Lewis and recently Meninga. And the great sides from the 90s have only one. A late 90s inductee at that.

My point is how the long passage of time lends itself to players being elevated as greater than what they really were. They become mythologised.

Johnny Raper's greatest highlights seem to consist of cover tackles. He sounds like a better version of Dallas Johnson to me. If he could do half of what Freddy could I'd be surprised. Of course I'm exaggerating with the Dallas Johnson reference but if they were all truly Immortal I'm surprised they got their arses handed to them by GB so often.

Valid points.

[Random Rooster]

Gunna' call bollocks on a few things here.

Johns at his best had the ball on a string in a way no other half had had up to then. He changed the way halves kicked, could make any team better by his presence, hit like a freight traiin in defence, and won everything he played in at every level of the game. Only Langer from your list deserves to be mentioned in the same breath, Cronk to be determined in 10+ years.

Peter Sterling was a 4 time premiership winning half back, twice winner of the Dally M, winner of the Rothmans medal, Inaugural winner of the Clive Churchill medal, State of Origin winning halfback, Australian halfback of the 1982 Invincible tour, Australian halfback and vc for the 1986 Unbeatables Tour.......how much more can a halfback be decorated? He achieved all this because he hardly missed a tackle, his kicking game was perfect and his passing and ability to read defence was second to none.....and he produced the goods week in and week out in a era where his head was a target for opposition defence. Like Andrew Johns he was one of a handful of players to receive a perfect 10 Rugby League Week rating ( unfortunately it was against the Roosters- i was at the game thats why i remember it). Yes Andrew Johns kicked goals and invented the now nearly defunt banana kick but if you look at the records- and really have seen them both play- there's nothing between them. Off the field Sterling never took eccys or any drugs, called Aboriginals black c$%ts or passed on bs racing information to Eddie Hayson!

[Headless Chook]

It's interesting that there are so many Immortals from the 50s and 60s - Gasnier, Raper, Langlands, Provan - from an era where Great Britain would regularly beat Australia.

But those truly great Roos sides from the 80s only have 2 inductees - Lewis and recently Meninga. And the great sides from the 90s have only one. A late 90s inductee at that.

My point is how the long passage of time lends itself to players being elevated as greater than what they really were. They become mythologised.

Johnny Raper's greatest highlights seem to consist of cover tackles. He sounds like a better version of Dallas Johnson to me. If he could do half of what Freddy could I'd be surprised. Of course I'm exaggerating with the Dallas Johnson reference but if they were all truly Immortal I'm surprised they got their arses handed to them by GB so often.

A few points to counter your argument. Firstly, English football was infinitely stronger in the 50's and 60's and even the early 70's then it was in the 80's and 90's. In the 80's it became obvious that the professionalism of Australian Rugby League was light years in front on the UK game and the score lines reflected as much. Secondly there wasn't much video footage around of the 50's and 60's games so there aren't too many highlights of any of the players from that time. Thirdly, you can trace Australia's period of dominance over the Poms back to 1963 when we won our first ever series on UK soil. Have a guess who the stars of that Australian team were?

I never got to see Raper and Gasnier, and only really the back end of Langlands career, but my dad and most people from that era rate Raper as the best they ever saw and Gasnier as the best centre to play the game. Raper was like a second 5/8th, he could run and ball play as well as cover defend.

Here's some footage of the great Johnny 'Dallas' Raper in action for you too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob8GGGy3G_A

[Headless Chook]

One final thing regarding the video footage I posted, if you are wondering why Gasnier is wearing 7 and Raper 15, they used to get named from 1-28 in the touring squad and wore that jumper number for the duration of the tour. So if you had two fullbacks, they would be 1 and 2, your four wingers would be 3, 4, 5, 6 and four centres, 7, 8, 9, 10 and so on.

[NorfolkStreetKid]

I suggest the Immortals concept is bullshit.

[OMR]

The word immortal has been bandied around too loosely. A hall of fame inductee should be as far as players should be regarded. An immortal has to be someone that’s unique and once in a generation player. Cam Smith is the only one I’d vote for.

[eddie]

I suggest the Immortals concept is bullshit.

Yep.
They proved that when Mal "the games done nothing for me" Meninga got one.

It pays to be a news ltd lackey.

[Jacks Fur Coat]

I suggest the Immortals concept is bullshit.

It kind of bores me sh...zzzzzz