The Coming Tax Review.

[Vasco]

I've voted ALP my whole life. With all due respect Paddo, Labor should have won that election in a landslide. Shorten's inability to clearly articulate the benefits of negative gearing and capital gains tax reform killed any chance that Albanese will revisit those reforms. As you say the ALP will stick with the status quo.

Agreed. Shorten cost the ALP big time.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Agreed. Shorten cost the ALP big time.

As I've said Vas, how does a social democrat "sell" a policy when the main stream media is owned by the class that supports the other side? After the relentless prior 3 year "Kill Bill" strategy, the sheeple weren't about to let Bill sell them anything so inability to "sell" was not crucial. As it was the Lib win was very narrow. More important was the media sell on Scomo who had, as usual, no policies. Murdoch and 9 presented him as the goofy, sport loving dad who was everyone's mate and enough of our disengaged mob bought the sentimental shit to just him home.

[caz]

As I've said Vas, how does a social democrat "sell" a policy when the main stream media is owned by the class that supports the other side? After the relentless prior 3 year "Kill Bill" strategy, the sheeple weren't about to let Bill sell them anything so inability to "sell" was not crucial. As it was the Lib win was very narrow. More important was the media sell on Scomo who had, as usual, no policies. Murdoch and 9 presented him as the goofy, sport loving dad who was everyone's mate and enough of our disengaged mob bought the sentimental shit to just him home.

the media's bias is nothing new. if shorten thought he couldn't sell it he shouldn't have introduced it. politics is about playing the cards you're dealt

[Red.]

So on the left the enemy is the main stream media and on the right the enemy is the fake media?

FMD. No wonder most people have disengaged from the political debate.

[Vasco]

As I've said Vas, how does a social democrat "sell" a policy when the main stream media is owned by the class that supports the other side? After the relentless prior 3 year "Kill Bill" strategy, the sheeple weren't about to let Bill sell them anything so inability to "sell" was not crucial. As it was the Lib win was very narrow. More important was the media sell on Scomo who had, as usual, no policies. Murdoch and 9 presented him as the goofy, sport loving dad who was everyone's mate and enough of our disengaged mob bought the sentimental shit to just him home.

I get it mate. Don't get me started on the media bias.

I now live in a state where the only option for a newspaper is The Australian or The Advertiser. Needless to say I don't read either, only useful as bedding for my worm farm.

[Paddo Colt 61]

So on the left the enemy is the main stream media and on the right the enemy is the fake media?

FMD. No wonder most people have disengaged from the political debate.

The US media is more pluralistic than is ours and more bizarre. Here anti progressive media has pretty much a monopoly on deciding what is news, the ABC having demonstrably caved in during the last iteration of the LNP. What we usually get is NO news when it comes to progressive initiatives. Does anyone recall any media praise for the ALP/Greens?

Also Red, most people haven't disengaged, they were never engaged in the first place. It is said that 90% have little or no interest in politics in Oz. Our msm which is deeply involved keeps telling them that it is all bullshit and not worth involving themselves in - "they're all the same" etc

[Red.]

I agree with alot of what you say Paddo. It just seems to me that you can't have a reasonable discussion about policy in this day and age. You're either a lefty or conservative with no one meeting in the middle. Bit like this place some times.

[mightyrooster]

I agree with alot of what you say Paddo. It just seems to me that you can't have a reasonable discussion about policy in this day and age. You're either a lefty or conservative with no one meeting in the middle. Bit like this place some times.

Exactly Red. The second I post in here supporting progressive policies I have right wingers claiming the looney left are getting agitated and ‘it’s such a fun thing to see’. Then if I say I like a particular conservative policy, Paddo (sorry Paddo you’re a good example) will accuse me of drinking the kool aid. I support progressive policies for the most part but I can still be conservative on some issues. I also agree on the media bias but it tends to work both ways. It’s more noticeable when they’re railing against or spreading obvious lies and propaganda about something you believe strongly in.

[Paddo Colt 61]

Exactly Red. The second I post in here supporting progressive policies I have right wingers claiming the looney left are getting agitated and ‘it’s such a fun thing to see’. Then if I say I like a particular conservative policy, Paddo (sorry Paddo you’re a good example) will accuse me of drinking the kool aid. I support progressive policies for the most part but I can still be conservative on some issues. I also agree on the media bias but it tends to work both ways. It’s more noticeable when they’re railing against or spreading obvious lies and propaganda about something you believe strongly in.

Yes MR but there are too few who know what they believe in. 40% still trust the MSM, the same msm which still presents Conservative opinion as fact. Most people don't care to read much so banners do the job on many of them - "Whitlam Rebuffed!!" or Kick this Mob Out!!"

[caz]

'left' and 'right' can be a kind of useful short cut to pigeonhole something but what do they mean? is climate change left wing? ask farmers.
i don't think left or right but try to gauge what's smart and what's dumb, what's good and what's bad

[Paddo Colt 61]

'left' and 'right' can be a kind of useful short cut to pigeonhole something but what do they mean? is climate change left wing? ask farmers.
i don't think left or right but try to gauge what's smart and what's dumb, what's good and what's bad

It's the opinion re something like CC that is Left or Right. CC is a fact what's moot is the extent that human activity has brought it about.

And how do you so determine? Policies are easily distorted by powerful opponents like Rupert.

[caz]

It's the opinion re something like CC that is Left or Right. CC is a fact what's moot is the extent that human activity has brought it about.

And how do you so determine? Policies are easily distorted by powerful opponents like Rupert.

i wasn't clear. what i meant was is why should taking action on climate change be seen as left wing? nixon and thatcher had attitudes to the environment that were somewhat progressive. taking action shouldn't be supported as a left wing cause but as a smart cause. ditto every political issue that comes up. by all means call it left or right if you want but you need to have some anchor which isn't tainted by political tribalism.

yes, policies will always be distorted and misrepresented by political opponents and the media and that's where smart leaders need to earn their keep, to cut through the bullshit and present issues in an understandable persuasive way

[mightyrooster]

Yes MR but there are too few who know what they believe in. 40% still trust the MSM, the same msm which still presents Conservative opinion as fact. Most people don't care to read much so banners do the job on many of them - "Whitlam Rebuffed!!" or Kick this Mob Out!!"

I know what you’re saying. My dear late Mum believed everything she saw on ACA because Tracey told her so. I gave up discussing those sorts of topics with her because politics wasn’t worth the tension that caused between us. Now it’s all click bait rather than ACA. Mind you the Project was a little the other way, a progressive agenda with the right winger Price in there to add balance. Not that I watch that sort of rubbish but I can see from all the click bait headlines in the news websites the general gist of what’s being discussed on these programs. But most people don’t pay for Foxtel so don’t see Sky News which is truly Murdoch’s domain. Only about 30% of Australians can afford it. We pay for it to get the sport but I avoid Sky News and all their moaning heads like the plague.

[mightyrooster]

i wasn't clear. what i meant was is why should taking action on climate change be seen as left wing? nixon and thatcher had attitudes to the environment that were somewhat progressive. taking action shouldn't be supported as a left wing cause but as a smart cause. ditto every political issue that comes up. by all means call it left or right if you want but you need to have some anchor which isn't tainted by political tribalism.

yes, policies will always be distorted and misrepresented by political opponents and the media and that's where smart leaders need to earn their keep, to cut through the bullshit and present issues in an understandable persuasive way

It’s that woke word that I hate. Used by the right to label any progressive view they disagree with. I agree, issues should be discussed on their merits not just labelled woke or fake like that somehow adds to the debate. We don’t have proper debate these days, just buzz words and catchphrases aimed at getting clicks or likes on social media. Maybe I’m just showing my age.