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Does Sitili deserve a shot over Gus?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Cockadoodledoo View Post

    I agree with this part. In a world with no salary cap, it probably wouldn't matter too much, however when we are going to struggle to hold on to some of our other talent due to limited salary cap space, it is worth questioning if the role Angus plays, justifies his coin. I have always thought that you should never pay big money to backrowers, unless they have something special like SBW or Kikau etc. I would be willing to bend this for someone like Cordner to a degree. He hits the ball up each time like he is playing for his life and is so inspirational in the way he plays. I don't see this yet with Angus and I struggle to think that Matto wouldn't have done the job just as well, if not better from what I have seen this year on approximately half the coin, or even Aubo as suggested.

    What I don't agree with is that we should be starting a 5 game rookie in order to allow Gus, an origin player to ease his way in from the bench. What we should be asking if Gus can show more from the starting spot. I have said this before and I will say it again, I would hate to lose Latrell and Sitili because we gave $750K or so to a backrower, in order to stick it up to Souths.
    Problem is that train's left the station. The time you worry about what you pay players is when they're signing a contract. After that it's irrelevant because there is nothing you can do about it. Irrelevant and de-stabilising.

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    • #62
      I think he'll come good.

      Our right side attack isn't working that smoothly at the moment.

      Once he hits a few holes he'll find his rhythm and confidence. It will make us even more potent.
      Born and bred in the eastern suburbs.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by zac View Post

        That might be true, but Robbo's not keen on offloading.

        Personally I'm happy with Gus. Not easy to come into a premiership winning team and be yourself from the get go.

        He's scored a couple of tries that weren't gimmes and there's nothing wrong with having both second rowers as 80 min solid hard workers. Gus is capable of a bit more flair than he's showed, but he's been solid. But sure, nothing wrong with him progressing his attack a bit!
        How do you know this Zac? I'd find this hard to believe with guys like Teddy and Latrell following the ball.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Thirteen View Post
          How do you know this Zac? I'd find this hard to believe with guys like Teddy and Latrell following the ball.
          Over the years our offloading numbers haven't been high.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by zac View Post

            Problem is that train's left the station. The time you worry about what you pay players is when they're signing a contract. After that it's irrelevant because there is nothing you can do about it. Irrelevant and de-stabilising.
            That's what people were saying when we released Pearce and SKD. Would you be happy to let Latrell go to keep Angus, if push came to shove and we needed to find an extra $300K for him?
            ...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by zac View Post

              Over the years our offloading numbers haven't been high.
              That's true but I doubt it's because they are told not to.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by The Axe View Post
                Been describing Sitili as. Hugh Mcgahan clone. Raw, fast, hard. Commentator described him as a wingspan like an albatross
                Not strictly on topic, but just as a matter of interest, Hughie's 26yo son Matt is playing Super Rugby for the QLD Reds this weekend - his first SR game since he came back from Japan. He is named on the bench as a fly-half/fullback option.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Rooster_6 View Post

                  He's getting paid a lot more than a solid hard working backrower.

                  Mitchell Aubusson could be that if its what was required. I can't imagine Robinson and the clubbed shelled out the type of coin they did for a no frills player, they'll want more from him no doubt in the world.
                  Valid points. But Robbo and the Roosters keep stuff very close to their chest. I would not be surprised he is used more as an attacking weapon later in the year. Nothing stay the same and it could be just a waiting game
                  The Internet is a place for posting silly things
                  Try and be serious and you will look stupid
                  sigpic

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Thirteen View Post

                    That's true but I doubt it's because they are told not to.
                    Youíre being ignorant here.

                    Of course theyíre told not too. Itís clear that Crichton has had his game changed since coming from the manky mob. Whatís more, have you ever seen Cordner throw an off-road in his life?

                    These players all possess the ability to throw an offload, no doubt. Playing rugby league for 10+ years will do that for you. But coaches like Robbo will instruct that offloads are only to be thrown by certain players (for example, JWH is a noted exponent of popping a pass back to friendy if heís held up in a tackle, and latrell likes to offload in attacking situations etc).

                    If players just offloaded because they can, then you end up with teams like the warriors who look flashy, but give away too many errors and lose more than they win.


                    - Cooper Cronk' scapula.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by keggs1 View Post

                      Youíre being ignorant here.

                      Of course theyíre told not too. Itís clear that Crichton has had his game changed since coming from the manky mob. Whatís more, have you ever seen Cordner throw an off-road in his life?

                      These players all possess the ability to throw an offload, no doubt. Playing rugby league for 10+ years will do that for you. But coaches like Robbo will instruct that offloads are only to be thrown by certain players (for example, JWH is a noted exponent of popping a pass back to friendy if heís held up in a tackle, and latrell likes to offload in attacking situations etc).

                      If players just offloaded because they can, then you end up with teams like the warriors who look flashy, but give away too many errors and lose more than they win.
                      I totally agree.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Cockadoodledoo View Post

                        That's what people were saying when we released Pearce and SKD. Would you be happy to let Latrell go to keep Angus, if push came to shove and we needed to find an extra $300K for him?
                        Souths have said that we paid a fortune for Angus, but not sure anyone really knows what the real figure is? Maybe it's not as high as people are saying.

                        But my point is that Angus is going to be here for at least three years - end of story.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by keggs1 View Post

                          Youíre being ignorant here.

                          Of course theyíre told not too. Itís clear that Crichton has had his game changed since coming from the manky mob. Whatís more, have you ever seen Cordner throw an off-road in his life?

                          These players all possess the ability to throw an offload, no doubt. Playing rugby league for 10+ years will do that for you. But coaches like Robbo will instruct that offloads are only to be thrown by certain players (for example, JWH is a noted exponent of popping a pass back to friendy if heís held up in a tackle, and latrell likes to offload in attacking situations etc).

                          If players just offloaded because they can, then you end up with teams like the warriors who look flashy, but give away too many errors and lose more than they win.
                          Itís ok Iíve been called worse.

                          I reckon that offloading is a skill. Some have the skill and some donít. Itís no coincidence that itís the same guys year after year who lead the offloading count from season to season.

                          No doubt our players are told to choose their moments when it comes to offloading but if they are told not to offload how do you explain the 9 offloads Angus and Latrell have made so far this year and the 7 that Keary and Teddy have each done this year? Do you think Robbo made these guys do extra laps around Kippax Field because they ignored him? Are you so ignorant to think that they are ignoring the coaches instructions?
                          Last edited by Thirteen; 05-15-2019, 06:45 PM.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by zac View Post

                            Problem is that train's left the station. The time you worry about what you pay players is when they're signing a contract. After that it's irrelevant because there is nothing you can do about it. Irrelevant and de-stabilising.
                            It evens out if you do it right I reckon... you pay more for some and pickup bargains elsewhere. Gus was picked for Origin last year and IMO there's stuff scouts/coaches look for that we'd all be clueless to. We have him long-term, he's growing as a player and people within our club have picked him because they see potential.

                            Rant: one reason I left competitive running was that I'd reached my potential by training very hard. I got to the stage where I could see which youngsters coming through had better natural technique (e.g. 14 year old soccer players) and despite being much faster than them at first, I knew which ones were gonna progress not only faster, but much further than me (i.e. would kick my bum by the age of 18). I reckon our experts would know such nuances about the potential of footy players...

                            Gus played 80 minutes, made 4 tackle breaks (only player better was Teddy), made 31 tackles and did not miss a single tackle. Sitili played 42 minutes, missed 4 tackles and made 1 tackle break. Sometimes it's what you don't do that makes you impressive. IMO a guy who plays 80, is one of our top tacklers, breaks 4 tackles and misses no tackles is gonna be one of the most frustrating players for the opposition to play against.

                            Sitili's been great value, don't get me wrong. However, defence is the bread and butter of a Trent Robinson coached team. Players like Cords and Crichton are not high gloss show ponies... they are those frustrating guys who never make mistakes. 4 Tackle breaks tells me that one who is better versed in League strategy than I would probably be able to link (for example) each Crichton tackle break on the right to players on the left drifting over, creating space for Latrell/Toops/Keary to punish them with. It's easy to see Latrell's run and assume he's done it all himself. However, footy is high-speed chess and IMO it is for sure that Crichton's doing a lot of low gloss forward work that paves the way for brilliance 2 or 3 plays in the future. No, I don't think he should be dumped.

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                            • #74
                              They won't be told not to offload; but rather to be circumspect and pick their moments.

                              Kane Evans circa 2015 was punching through the line and offloading to support players like RTS and it was devastating.

                              Come 2016 he went full pansy mode and was throwing the ball out back whilst being driven back. Those "off loads" were highly ineffective.

                              So there's offloads SBW style which are devastating attacking weapons that lead to try scoring opportunities. And there are Corey Parker style marsh mellow offloads that lead to very little.

                              You'd rather 2 SBW style off loads a game over 6 Parker poseys any day.

                              I suspect Robbo wants his players on the edges to use their instincts and pick there moments when there's an opportunity for an effective offload - see Cordner with his SBWesque offload through the line that I believe set Lachy Lam away on Anzac Day.

                              So they do have it in them - it's just that they're highly judicious as to when. And perhaps Angus is learning that artform and is merely adapting from his Souffs days where he seemed to have licence to Hegarty crab cross field and dump a few Parker offloads out back.

                              Robbo clearly isn't a fan of this style and obviously wants Angus to focus on being more direct. But when he does adjust then look out. Manu and those running support inside may have a feast.
                              Last edited by Tommy Smith; 05-15-2019, 06:53 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by ism22 View Post

                                It evens out if you do it right I reckon... you pay more for some and pickup bargains elsewhere. Gus was picked for Origin last year and IMO there's stuff scouts/coaches look for that we'd all be clueless to. We have him long-term, he's growing as a player and people within our club have picked him because they see potential.

                                Rant: one reason I left competitive running was that I'd reached my potential by training very hard. I got to the stage where I could see which youngsters coming through had better natural technique (e.g. 14 year old soccer players) and despite being much faster than them at first, I knew which ones were gonna progress not only faster, but much further than me (i.e. would kick my bum by the age of 18). I reckon our experts would know such nuances about the potential of footy players...

                                Gus played 80 minutes, made 4 tackle breaks (only player better was Teddy), made 31 tackles and did not miss a single tackle. Sitili played 42 minutes, missed 4 tackles and made 1 tackle break. Sometimes it's what you don't do that makes you impressive. IMO a guy who plays 80, is one of our top tacklers, breaks 4 tackles and misses no tackles is gonna be one of the most frustrating players for the opposition to play against.

                                Sitili's been great value, don't get me wrong. However, defence is the bread and butter of a Trent Robinson coached team. Players like Cords and Crichton are not high gloss show ponies... they are those frustrating guys who never make mistakes. 4 Tackle breaks tells me that one who is better versed in League strategy than I would probably be able to link (for example) each Crichton tackle break on the right to players on the left drifting over, creating space for Latrell/Toops/Keary to punish them with. It's easy to see Latrell's run and assume he's done it all himself. However, footy is high-speed chess and IMO it is for sure that Crichton's doing a lot of low gloss forward work that paves the way for brilliance 2 or 3 plays in the future. No, I don't think he should be dumped.
                                great post, if that is correct that puts so much in perspective, and shows what robbo sees as oppossed to what we the uneducated fan see. when i say uneducated im a giy who played 2 or 3 seasons growing up in nz, and has probably watched 2000 nrl games , but my knowledge is severely lacking compared to a t.robbo.

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